California to negotiate trade with other countries to bypass Trump tariffs
Gov. Gavin Newsom said California will look for new trade opportunities.
Here we go, dissolution of the U.S. is starting. It's a slow roll, but i think that's where we are headed
been thinking and saying for years that we’re on the path to a soviet style balkanization. just wasn’t sure what would be the spark. this certainly smells like one.
I would love to visit the country of California.
The US has been there before with the Nullification Crisis of 1832. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_crisis?wprov=sfla1
I guess history really does rhyme.
Well the south finally will get to leave the union and form florida-man-istan, jesus-wasteland-istan and all-hat-no-cattle-istan. Good luck to them. We should have a going away party before we put up a wall to keep them from trying to get back in.
Will it be California first? Or maybe Alaska? Hawaii? We know one's gonna try and split, just not which.
Cheeto will 'gift' Russia Alaska for its help with Greenland
Not Hawaii at least in my opinion. The military foothold is too high, California might have a similar problem but the state is so much bigger that I don't think that it is as much of an issue. I think Alaska is most likely though. Might pull a Texas and succeed and then ask to become a part of Canada.
Sadly it's a near inevitable outcome of an overly powerful Federal Government attempting to deal with a population this large. The more powerful the Federal Government gets the less able it is to balance the different desires of its citizens and the less popular it becomes.
The solution was to NOT have such a powerful Federal Government but we tossed that out the window around somewhere between 1900 and 1920. It may not happen now over this but the clock is ticking and it's going to happen at some point over something.
It will be terrifying and terrible when it happens.
Unfortunately, we keep giving a small amount of people a lot of power. The cons have way too much representation in relation to their numbers. The other huge problem is that we have a system of legalized bribery, which is just insanity.
We've been heading there for a long time and much of the rest of the world has been feeding into the two-sides divide. It's easier to see when you already loathe both sides for different reasons. But the US has been a powerhouse many would love to see taken down. Generations of work towards that are paying off, and the US working class will suffer the most.
Unfortunately this runs into constitutional problems. While the spineless subhuman creatures in congress and the supreme court seem to have no problem with Trump and his administration ignoring the constitution I fully expect them to come down hard on any state that does so (at least in cases that go against Trump and his policies).
Don't have to care about being unconstitutional if you're not part of the union.
That's great in theory but just as unrealistic in practice for California as it always has been for Texas. The single biggest stumbling block for any state to leave the union for any reason is the military. Most of the other problems can be resolved within the borders of the state, but the disposition of existing and theoretical new military hardware, personnel, and bases will always be a sticking point even assuming the federal government and the other states are willing to let them leave.
Any attempt to leave the US that has any hope of succeeding would be a very long and protracted process that would make Brexit look breakneck in comparison. We're talking at least a couple decades at a minimum.
It's either that or another civil war and that has so many variables I'm not sure anyone has any hope of predicting how that would turn out.
Constitution? What constitution ?
What’s good for the goose…
If the union doesn't provide any benefits and only costs money and prevents your state from functioning as well as it could and the union only makes solutions harder to solve ...... why stay in the union?
States stay together because of mutual benefit, not because of a document or promises.
And you could force a state to stay in a union by force but the cost of doing that far outweighs the benefits of a peaceful union.
See my other response to peregrin5 but in addition you're assuming rational actors all around. Actual reality is far more messy with many of those involved making decisions based more on feelings than any in depth reasoning. States stay together because there's no obvious alternative. There's no mechanism for a state to leave the union and doing so requires solving many problems that have no obvious answers.
The Trump administration has demonstrated that the constitution doesn't really matter. Why keep pretending like this is some sort of sacred immutable text? The spell has been lifted.
yes, without any shared understanding around whether we enforce all laws or just some, law books are just reems of scratchy toilet paper. So are everyones holy books, and any international agreements we have.
Trump doesnt care about laws and law enforcement has openly hated the public for a long time. Their oaths to serve the law are a vanity that they jettison whenever its convenient.
And Biden/Harris violating god knows how many genocide and arms laws for zionist $ and then losing the election and support across every voting demographic didnt help matters. I wish I could go back in time to the day Obama picked Biden as his running mate and shake Obama until he picks someone else.
Let the feds try to enforce it then. Texas immigration officers basically kicked the feds out when they started doing federally illegal shit, the federal government is barely held together these days. Force them to do something about it. If the flow of money between California and the US stops, California is the big winner so they have all the leverage in the world.
The article states California is negotiating with other countries to exclude California from those countries' retaliatory tarrifs on US goods.
There's nothing the federal government can do about that.
That's not actually true, there are things the federal government can do. First it's a grey area legally. The constitution says trade deals (and trade outside the borders of any one state) is the domain of the federal government.
The argument in this case would be "Is this a trade deal?". It certainly sounds like a deal, and it involves trade, but the key technicality would be if California is giving anything in return. Are they promising anything in exchange for no or reduced tariffs or are they just asking with the promise of nothing in return? If they're not promising anything there's a pretty good chance they could win the argument that this isn't a trade deal and therefore the federal government has no legal basis to intervene (although it's worth pointing out that the current administration hasn't particularly let legality influence their actions).
On the other hand if California is promising something in return there's a decent chance the federal government could successfully argue that that meets the definition of a trade deal and is therefore prohibited. This also raises the question of why another country would agree to remove tariffs from California if they aren't promising anything in return. The only answer I can come up with is to figuratively (and maybe literally at the same time) give the middle finger to Trump.
Something something taxation.... something something representation... help me out here americans
It looks like they're just going to lobby trading partners to please direct (actual) retaliatory sanctions towards products from red states, not their state. In general, I like that idea. But maybe now any excemptions for blue state products should come with a promise to actually fight the incipient fascist government...
Last civil war was about state rights to own slaves. Now its state right to avoid trade distribution?
My god the writers need to be fired.
Turmoil has engulfed the United States of America. The taxation of trade routes is in dispute.
Literally what I was thinking thx
All hail The New California Republic. But in all seriousness, it wouldn't surprise me if the United States has a balkanization event happen in the near future.
The US does not need balkanization.
We have a single region that has been rebellious and trying to corrupt and destroy the rest of the union since the founding, because they cannot see any governmental or religious structure as legitimate unless it is founded on the principles of racism. This is their own words.
Lincoln was wrong to readmit the south, we should have let Sherman finish then build a wall around them, while letting any slaves who wanted to escape do so.
Either that or we need to restart reconstruction today with absolute brutality.
Before they committed treason against the US alone, this time they allied with Russia to bring us down.
We have a single region that has been rebellious and trying to corrupt and destroy the rest of the union since the founding
Isn't a ton of the current Trump administration rot coming from Silicon Valley?
Isn't Silicon Valley in California?
Lincoln was wrong to readmit the south
The South was under the Reconstruction plan, complete with Marshall Law and Freedman's Bureaus and all sorts of additional federal oversight, untilThe Compromise of 1877 gave Rutherford B. Hayes the presidency at the cost of his soul.
Lincoln didn't simply readmit the South. He readmitted 9 million enslaved Americans as proper first class citizens. And the initial wave of democratization gave birth to a brief but generally optimistic egalitarian glimpse of a potential future.
Lincoln's big mistake was not putting Smedly Butler into his VP seat. Letting the country revert to Andrew Johnson was the big blunder. One that Grant had to spend two terms mopping up.
But that's all distant history. The modern fascist presidency is born out of Manhattan Island. The modern Texas/Florida/Ohio Axis of Evil is a product of Yale Business School. Stanford Alumni are fucking us up far more today than some Daughters of the Confederacy could have dreamed.
This isn't a North/South problem. It's a turf war between extractive industry and the professional class.
I don't get why Oregon and Washington haven't jumped on that bandwagon. Imagine the entire west coast working together. All Western seaports.
There is a Cascadia Independence movement but it's not widely talked about.
The two heads representing the east and west coasts, obviously (please let us join you, California, when you go).
If Trump thinks he's above the Constitution why can't a state?
No, there is legal precedence for this
Under NAFTA states could impose their own tariffs because NAFTA was a Federal agreement and countries would have to negotiate free trade with individual states
This is just the reverse of that
Good. There is no point in being part of a government that doesn't believe in governance. Here's hoping that other Blue States join a compact with California.
Trump has been withholding fema money allocated to California. They are stealing disaster funds. He also wasted billions of gallons of water during the la , for a headline, pretending that he did something. Wasting that water when we have a wet/dry season is detrimental for farming. Destroying food supply/ water supply In reality that’s attrition and is an act of war, he is attacking Californians extra hard, but he also attacking all Americans.
Why does the bear have two heads?
That flag comes from a videogame series, called Fallout. The premise is that America or China began a nuclear war, with horrific results for the world as a whole. At least a couple hundred years later, the player is released from the confines of a fallout shelter. These vaults housed the remnants of humanity as we knew them, and they are now emerging to recolonize the earth.
Thing is, some critters had children, despite the excessive radiation. New California's national animal, the bear, tends to have an extra pair of heads.
If the premise of the series interests you, I recommend New Vegas as your starting point. It has the most narrative strength in the series and is user friendly in comparison to the original games. Fallout 4 is approachable, but lost writing and player choice, unfortunately.
I’m in a blue state, and I say, kick all the MAGA out first. Forget em!
While I agree with telling Trump to go lick Elon's balls, states are specifically forbidden from entering into trade agreements with foreign countries by the Constitution. To do this, California would need to be willing to secede from the Union. I'm okay with it.
California produces 10% of American agricultural needs. If they secede it would be way worse on the economy than these tariffs.
I think if California were to secede, Oregon and Washington probably would too. A lot of blue states that border Canada would also probably Jump ship. New York and Michigan might secede too. Those 5 states make up almost 30% of America's economy and are the center of very lucrative industries like the movie industry, automotive industry, electronics and software industries, the global financial industry. Those 5 states would do just fine without the United States but the United states would be an unimportant backwater without them.
depending on which produce item its significantly higher
The best I could tell from the article was that all he was doing was essentially lobbying foriegn countries to tailor their responses so that they hurt california less than other states. I can't see any law blocking that. From what I could tell he wasn't even offering anything real in exchange.
Texas couldn't secede, probably because it's a red state..how amazing would it be if California became it's own country with actual progressive laws. I for one would allow it. Let them become Canada, Mexico or even it's own. Do it Cali!
Let's do it.
It would be ironic if businesses come back to California because of the tariffs.
Thank goodness now we are talking. Time for California to move past the Orange Turd.
Turd gonna clamp down on California. He's got to. Otherwise he loses grip.
As i read this, i am remembered of Newsom meeting Trump, after he refused to help with Californian wildfires.
Why they all leaning forward except Newsom? lol
People misinterpret this image. Newsom isn't point at Trump, he's keeping the stack of people from falling over.
Newsom’s gravity powers are pulling them in. They can’t help it
They're clearly exiting the plane and trying to keep the line moving.
Why does that look like a photo of a bunch of Nazis?
Hope this falls through. Any trade deals that allow the US to circumvent Trumps policies and thus keep his regime going is bad. The big crash needs to happen before people are motivated to fight back. The slow frog boil is what led us here to begin with.
This IS what fighting back looks like. It takes many forms.
if all the states did this his regime would be the size of the white house.
Would be fun to watch companies from other states bypass the tariffs by buying California products.
Then of course, Trump will propose tariffs on a State.
It would be hilarious if only red states had tariffs with the rest of the world.
Kudos to California. The neo-Nazi filled MAGA is all about state rights and I hope they tell California to secede.
I hope California succeeds at seceding
How would a state secede from the US? Like, what’s the actual process?
The best way would be quiet quitting. Making routes to federal buildings surrounded by construction and road closures at odd times. Overlapping federal job descriptions internally and never communicating with federal equivalents unless required, and that with a “great email, still working on that!” Or “emailed Oregon about that and they had some great ideas, get with them for the data!”
Offering great state guard contracts to all military eligible to re-up, that exceed what the feds offer. Build out coastal protection fleet due to “them darn migrants.” Train your military in FPV as if you were what the US should be doing right now, so the feds know any pushback will be costly, and you’re not breaking any laws anyway, remember?
Tell your state and local police we don’t work with the FBI or IRS in cooperation any more, and let the populace know the feds must individually enforce all tax law. That’s where it’s good for the Feds to remember that’s not required, and the 4th amendment prevents them being forced to act… in fact, that makes them subject to arrest for trying due to the laws of the great state of california.
All legal, and petty. But legal.
That's ingesting the ''I'll get right back to you'' form of revolution sounds more plausible than anything else I've heard. Just slow walk it to death.
this guy obstructs
The state government would put forwards a local movement to secede from the US, and if it actually passed the federal government would butt in and go "you can't secede, that's completely illegal and unconstitutional" (it is), at which point the state would either go "oh well" and stand down or say "go suck eggs" and continue trying to secede, which the federal government would treat as rebellion or insurrection.
There is no process. States cannot just up and say "see ya" on their own, we fought a war over that.
If the people felt that it would be OK for a state to leave, the proper thing to do would be to pass an amendment stating a process, and then the state would do it. There would be a lot of details to hammer out: does the State get to keep Federal property (like military bases)? Does it inherit a share of the deficit? What happens to deferred US taxes on things like 401k accounts?
IMHO it would take so long to hammer that stuff out that it's basically impossible.
"But it's not legal!"
Have you learned nothing the past three months? Laws are what we make of them.
A state seceding is a simple process:
That's it. The United States Constitution itself was illegally written, an exercise in simple willful power. State secession works the same way.
In short: War. I'm not being hyperbolic either.
It's not possible - you can check out but you can never leave
I wonder if the same thing was said about the USSR as late as 1988?
That's what the Civil War was about, there is no legal way to exit were one nation period end of story millions of dead soldiers proved it.
If a state tried to leave they would have to prove they could no matter the laws. It would be war. No ifs ands or buts. That means having a military that could take out the US military. Currently the top Airforce in the world is the US Airforce, the second largest Airforce is the US Navy, then it's Russia, then it's the US Army. Unless you can somehow convince the military to side with you when you leave, it's not going to happen. I would imagine if you tried to claim it legally the best you could hope for is Federal agents walking in the second said state gov claims independence, and idk arresting the heads of state for treason, and telling said state to elect a new gov.
But what is the US military going to do? go to a state that wants to secede and just kill everyone in it??
You need to amend the constitution which requires 38 states to agree to it that considering how many right wing states hate California doesn’t sound impossible
There is a historical example, but given the outcome, I don't think it would be a good idea to follow that blueprint.
Maybe Cali could make an agreement to join Canada or EU.
You'll need easy access to Canada. What better way than to have a close Canadian Province? - Wa state
Newsom is directing his state to pursue "strategic" relationships with countries announcing retaliatory tariffs against the U.S., urging them to exclude California-made products from those taxes.
It sounds like he wants foreign countries to do California a favor without getting anything in exchange (and even that might be unconstitutional). Or is there something that he has the authority to offer in exchange which I'm missing?
CA sales tax averages 10%. While it's nowhere on the scale of the tariffs, it could offset the impact significantly if reduced or eliminated for goods coming from specific countries.
Additionally, the government of CA has enormous purchasing power. Directing where that money goes could serve to be a powerful tool in mitigating the trade war.
Plus, one element that most folks don't think about is the financial weight of the CalPERS retirement fund. This organization controls a huge amount of investment money subject to state regulations as to where its invested. Opening up that revenue stream to select foreign companies could be a mighty tasty carrot.
Trump has got another great idea. A tax of 1.5 million dollars for each ship made in China that will dock at any American port, or 1 million if the ship is not made in china but the shipper fleet has a majority of Chinese ships.
So, off before they did like California, Panama, Louisiana, new York, those stops will increase the price of shipping by 4.5 million dollars.
Trump thinks that in this way, in a couple weeks, shipyards will reopen in the states and everyone will buy American ships. Because it takes a couple days to build an oil tanker
Result:
They'll just unload the goods in Canada or Mexico then use trains/trucks. For oil and coal and wheat and other stuff that can't be easily transported by land without ax existing infrastructure, that's an additional 20% cost on top of tariffs. Inflation go go go
Yeah Trump wants the US to be a great shipbuilder again... but for that you need materials (steel), workers who want to do that sort of job( he's deporting a lot of people) and skill to manufacture ships...
He thinks by taxing countries or companies, they will go to the US, but they won't, and if they do it takes time and a lot of investment..
cExit?
It's really not legally possible, meaning your either having a revolution, a civil war, or the USA has no ability to stop you as it's effectively over.
Unless CA has military bases that would fully side with them, as in all the ones in CA and they would need other states, THEN a war could be possible, but that is very unlikely, currently there's no military that could beat the US military, so it's not even worth going over unless the US dissolves.
The civil war only happens if the U.S. attacks after a secession, but the state that single most funds the U.S. military is California, if you include Washington and Oregon in the secession you now end up with 19ish% of the countries budget and a sizable percentage of the military bases. With the American civil war there was somewhat defined lines of north vs south but this would be fights inside their own states.
CalOut
Calexit is the name of the California secessionist movement that has been around for a few decades.
Anyone speaking of secession - please, read history. We do not want to do that again, I don’t care what you believe in, it is a terrible idea. Please think it through beyond how admittedly awesome it would be in theory alone.
It's a terrible idea, but so is invading Greenland, Canada, or Panama. We don't do such things anymore, read history why, but yet, here we are.
This is how a possible secession starts. Trump might prohibit California from doing this because it goes against his masters plan of destroying the US, California doesn't want to become a husk of it's former self and pushes through.
If California were to secede, it would immediately break the rest of the US. All the red states have been so poorly managed for decades that they near fully rely in handouts from successful states like California. With California gone, other blue and successful states would likely follow because they won't be able to pay the bill for those states either, splitting the US into a successful new country and dirt poor third world type theocratic dictatorship nation. Maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing, let the christo fascists live in the hell hole that they want
Secession(s) will likely include a civil war, and right now with the decade of trump shit causing division and chaos, I think that too isn't too far fetched anymore. There is nothing as horrible as neighbor fighting neighbors, ask Yugoslavia, but here we are in Trump's world.
Wouldn't MAGA supposedly be thrilled for California to leave?
I'm trying to imagine trumper militia marching into California saying, "we need to keep this liberal shithole and it's 54 blue electoral votes".
Yeah, it would be devastating for the US economy, but if MAGA has told us anything it's that they prefer to tank the economy than embrace any kind of diversity.
Now city-states on the other hand...
It's even worse today. The amount of interconnected systems we have in play would be absolutely chaos to try and separate.
We didn't have to worry about power grids, networking, food was FAR more local, it would take years to try to isolate yourself from it all on a statewide scale.
Im familiar with history, and yes, I would love for my state to leave the current union... It's a failed democracy.
EU is already trying to specifically target products from red states with tariffs.
That's not going to work in practice. The US economy is even more tangled under the hood than it is internationally.
Might as well say you're taking a called shot on someone's left ventrical, because you don't want to hurt any other part of their body.
I'd prefer that they at least try to target them
Source? (No doubt, just looking forward tobreading more)
Not sure what media you prefer, find a nice article here: https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=eu+targetting+red+states
Holy shit, my prediction model forecast this. 🍿 This is actually a major step toward derailing this coup.
Or starting a civil war.
If it ends with us cutting Trumpistan/the Neo-Confederacy off, I'm good. Just hope we have enough time to get decent people out of the Neo-Confederacy.
wanna join EU? ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Already looking into it...
lol i'm considering a move to Tijuana so i can commute to San Diego.. if California can nix the chicken tax then i'm moving.
Oh shit can they do that?
Why not? If the last couple of months have proven anything, it's that our entire system is a paper tiger.
I don't think so.
Politics can sort of be like playing a cross between chess and chicken. Strategic moves to see who blinks first. It's a constitutional challenge that will need to be addressed by the federal government, taking their time and resources from their own unconstitutional efforts.
Or not. I'm just an Internet person who as far as anyone knows has zero expertise in these sorts of things.
California ! Uber Alles !
Unironically ? I’m so confused
Fun fact Deutschland Uber Alles was originally a call for German unification during the early 1800s and was originally a German republican rallying cry.
Funnily enough, there's actually hostoric precedent for trying. Emphasis on trying.
Well, they could make a deal to buy at a price adjusted for tariffs so it's a lower price then compensate for that with lower prices on CA exports you don't actually need to stop tariffs legally, they can be worked around the trick is trading something back that makes up the difference and costs less than the tariff to give.
just secede already.
Fuck companies who do that. United they shall fall.
Why would they do that? They gain nothing from that.
As much as I hate Newsom and the democrats, secession from a lunatic presidency that is ready to tank the global market for the interest of the rich elite would be a big step forward for Americans. Trump wants big government. He wants the entire country to adhere to the right wing populists and ultra rich. Yea no I’d say the Californians gain a fuck ton from leaving all that.
Im not an American but can they actually do this legally?
I mean, I guess we'll find out together
Legally? No. But you can’t secede legally either so there is a fuzzy line there somewhere should they start down that road.
I'm not a British Subject, but can the Colonists actually go to war against the King?
Depends on how legally you need it. They also have marijuana by way of nonenforcement.
Succession! And we’re taking Hawaii Oregon and Washington. We can trade with the EU and Canada. Maybe we can join the EU
If we’re fixing America’s beshittlements, can we restore the Hawaiian monarchy?
Or at least let Hawaii be independent again and let the people of Hawaii decide what they want. Too bad they don't teach the history of what American corporations did to destroy Hawaii and how the US government helped overthrow a friendly foreign nation for American oligarchs to rule.
What's the point of fixing any monarchy?
It's too bad Utah and Nevada are between Colorado and California...
"United" States stands divided. It just gets worse...and at an incredible speed. It's always quicker and easier to demolish as opposed to building. Every one wants the easy money and the quick buck without a balanced expenditure of energy.
But the tariffs are paid by American. It is tax on Americans. Why would foreign country care too much other than the price of their goods are a little higher for americans.
People will have to still buy essential products anyway or suffer clogged drains or sit on the floor without chairs or eat with hands without utensils.
In fact, I raised prices on my digital goods a while back due to trump threats of tariffs on Canada Mexico. i raised prices only on US platforms for my digital products. People are still buying.
They care because their economies rely on people buying the products. The reasons why tariffs hurt both sides is because the movement of products decays. That’s the whole idea, so that the products’ supply source changes.
There are a lot of complicated reasons why high tariff are a global problem in a global economy, but simply put:
Reduced profit for a single company or industry isn’t usually detrimental to a national or global economy. But when an entire country’s economy is hit with reduced profits across every industry, then it creates a problem.
So in summary, Americans are going to get fucked directly, “foreign countries” are going to get fucked indirectly.
So in summary, Americans are going to get fucked directly, “foreign countries” are going to get fucked indirectly.
And the only people who win are the billionaires that get to swoop in and buy everything up at bargain basement prices.
I am not affected by tariffs, but I am going to further raise the prices of my digital goods on US platforms anyway. Because i noticed people buy anyway when i raised prices earlier this year.
my impact is extremely tiny, but if everyone does it, especially for essential products sold to US. This might help a nation as a whole compensate for loss of revenue in other industries affected by tariffs.
Most people in US will think the higher prices for everything are due to tariffs.
Edit : Note that my prices on platform based outside of US are kept much lower, Americans do buy from there. It is only on US site that I raise prices.
And this is constitutional how exactly?
There is a precedent for lawlessness. Literally anything is constitutional now, you just do it and ignore the court ruling. Where have you been the last decade?
No politician in California is going to criticize the lack proper vote counting techniques in the USA states that caused this harm. This is because Californian leadership is in thrall to the oligarchs.
Also the man saying this is not the type of person to get out of the safe zone.
I’m not quite sure why people are thinking anything significant can or will happen. The United States cannot change at all
Good point, better to try nothing and give up.
My point was that the current leaders can only do nothing. I’m in Texas, so there.
This is literally the way the US doss change.
