Remote View

2w ago

Golden Snitch

The Leaky Cauldron @diagonlemmy.social

Golden Snitch

79 4

174 comments

"Plot device, Mr. Frodo, plot device."
- This is what happens when an author designs a sport where the protagonist is the single most important player.
  
  Specifically, when a hack of an author designs a sport.
- It's not nearly as bad as the basketball example anyways, because the other teams players are having to play the normal game, AND try to fuck over the opponent trying to catch the snitch. If you ignore the scrawny kid and let him catch the game ender, it's your own fault.
- Now that's a quote I've not heard in a long time.
  
  Bless me little hobbit feets, Mr. Frodo!

As I recall the story, Rowling designed that feature of the game specifically to annoy her sport-loving husband. It's a feature of a fictional sport designed in spite. So really, it performs it's function admirably...
- She does seem to be mainly powered by spite.
- Doesnt that diminish the world building? I know it did for me. As an adult, I cant appreciate HP the same way I did as a kid. I can still appreciate Lotr just fine, as an example. She should have put her differences aside for a better story, but shes not better than that anyway.
  
  What world building? Rowling' wizarding world is the epitome of nothing makes sense and can only be explained by "a wizard did it".
  Hogwarts was built in the 10th century, but uses far more modern Muggle technology for their sewage and sanitary system rather than some established form of teleportation/relocation.
  The economy is a joke as they use fixed exchange rates between gold and silver can be abused for arbitrage trades with the Muggle world. It can only be explained by all wizards and witches stopping their primary education as ten-year-olds but even then it would take only one to figure it out and break the system.
  Why on earth use owls to carry letters and packages? The practicality of using owls over other birds aside, why not use established instant transportation methods like the floo network? The only explanation we get is that the floo network and apparition are blocked in Hogwarts but does this one school dictate the rules for the entire world? And even then, wouldn't it be easier to set up a post office in an exempted area or just outside Hogwarts?
  I could go on as there are countless other flaws and then just as many again once you consider the implications of the time turner. Having a sport with nonsense rules is one of the lesser issues when the world is inherently broken
- I respect that, but I hate the fans who love it, it’s like they have never played or watched anything competitive before.
  
  Monopoly was also designed to annoy people, yet somehow people play it hoping it will be fun.
  
  Or they did, didn't grasp the game, and it felt entirely arbitrary and boring, like that game of quidditch.
- Well that just makes me like her a tiny little bit.
  Or -- you know -- dislike her a little bit less.

except that the golden snitch doesnt mean you win. it means you get 150 points and the match ends. sure, that often leads to a win unless the enemy has a 150 point lead, but still.
- Also, apparently in the school cup the overall score seems to be counted to overall results - not just win/loss. Isn't there a point when Harry needs to make sure he only catches the Snitch if they are in a lead by at least certain ammount of points to win the cup? One could assume this applies to leagues as well.
  Not that it balances things much, but it does give a bit of nuance.
  
  Either way, while the match only ending if the snitch is caught is a great concept, it probably shouldn't be worth fifteen goals worth of points. Fifty points, or even just thirty, for the snitch would add more strategy to the game since it might be best to deny the other team the snitch without catching it yourself if the other team is ahead.
  
  I do remember there was a game were they grab the snitch and STILL lost, because the other side was 10 points ahead
  
  That kind of system makes so much more sense if the games are for a set amount of time. Otherwise, what's to stop two teams from dragging a game out to ensure they both surpass whoever is in the lead?

Just let Dumbledore divide the points between the teams like for the house cup. Totally fair.
- The House Cup was always much dumber than Quidditch imo
  
  I appreciated that after a few years they all stopped caring in the least about the house cup, and it went to other houses as well. It was hacky.
- The house points are supposed to be displayed by large hourglasses with rubies, emeralds, etc. falling down or floating up. One billion making their way through the hourglass over the course of months? decades? would be hilarious.
  for a few days.

To quote Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality:
Just. Buy. A. Clock.

"Oh no, I caught the snitch when we were 160 points behind" said no one ever except for that one time in the books and even then it just makes zero fucking sense.
- Actually that happened twice, once at the world cup where it made zero sense and once at Hogwarts, where it did make sense, because even though Gryffindor lost catching the snitch kept them in the house cup which is based off point differential
  
  It just leads to such utterly contrived scenarios where the winning team isn't the one who catches the snitch. If it was something like 30 points and didn't end the game and you could catch it multiple times it would be better I think. It would be interesting to see team compositions that vary. Maybe some teams forgo scoring with the quaffle and focus only on scoring with snitch catches.
- The game doesn't end until the snitch is caught.
  In a league situation in the event of the same number of wins, the largest points difference comes first.
  I.e. it is strategically useful to end a losing game as quickly as possible.

Just ending the game would have been a good way to implement the snitch, tbh. It would have more strategy, more reasons to block the other seeker when you're behind. If there really had to be extra points, it should have been worth 10 points or something.
- Yeah that's the reason quidditch is a dumb fucking sport. You can be wiping the floor with the other team, but if their guy gets lucky and catches the parking lot frog, it's all for nothing. They've won despite having played an objectively much worse game.
  
  Yeah, I usually go down this same thought process every time I re-read the books. I usually end up at, "Yup, she went out of her way to avoid Quidditch by using feebler and feebler excuses every book." It's a shame, because it really could have wound up an exciting part of the series if it was more thought out.
- It was worth 150 points. The equivalent of 15 goals. Do you mean 100 points and re-release it and continue playing?

Counter point :- (not to do with American sports -- they are ridiculous)
imagine you're watching a quidditch game where one side has an overwhelmingly good set of chasers. I mean unbelievably good. Far better than the other side. Within five minutes they are 50 points up, and another 30 minutes later they are 250 points up. There is literally no chance of the other side catching them.
Do you really want to sit and watch that? It's like the Brazil - Germany game. After a while you would just be "Stop -- you are hurting them too much. It's getting embarrassing and we are all now going to leave because even the home team wants you to stop"
At least with the snitch it means there is a chance that it'll be evened out.
- so ... at least one vote for pro-frog
- Conversely, literally every other game becomes meaningless. Catching the snitch gains SO many points. You could literally just play defense and snitch support, and never try and score.
  
  Remember you also have to catch the snitch to end the game. Otherwise it would just go forever
- It's worse than that though. The parking lot frog adds a huge, but not impossible, score to your team if you catch it AND it instantly ends the game.
  So even if one team is absolutely crushing the other, it's not actually going to even things out unless it is in a very specific range of uneven matches.
  Being so overwhelmingly outclassed makes a neat sort of metagame about preventing the parking lot frog from being caught. Though the frog is apparently hard enough to catch even once that defending it is sort of besides the point. Even if the frog hunt suddenly has a second dynamic, it's still taking place pretty much completely outside of the view of the audience.
  
  Turns out she wasn't great at designing an actual game. Among other things...
  
  The snitch isn't completely out of view of the audience though. And I think that's kind of the point. The audience can see every fight between seekers for the snitch. This happens at the world cup, and at the matches between Slytherin and Gryffindor in the books. A good set of chasers and beaters can be countered by a good seeker and a good keeper.
- Another counter point: it's a book for children.
  And another again: "In episode 2F09 when Itchy plays Scratchy’s skeleton like a xylophone..."
  
  I'm sorry, but I hate this excuse. Bad writing is bad writing. Hand-waving away something that just straight-up doesn't make sense because it's "for children" is lazy. Also, saying a 30-second throwaway gag on a show-within-a-show is the same as the thousands of pages of YA lore in the series Rowling spent over a decade writing is obviously a false equivalency.

It would differ from town to town - more southern games would feature a lubed hog, in Philly they have to catch a chicken, in Florida they have to seduce a gator, etc.
- All the drunk Florida fans at the tailgate will be seducing gators anyway.
  Seems unfair on the ref to have to sort them out.

It'd work better if he only caught it once, like if it were a one in a million it'd balance better and represent the "hope against all odds" kinda device that i thought it was. But Harry catching the bloody thing every third game ruins it.
- Iirc a game of quidditch doesn't end until the snitch is caught. I believe one game lasted months
  
  Really, I thought they were timed or something? I thought catching the snitch ended the game, but was not the only thing that could end the game?
  
  I believe one game lasted months
  Ah, so a typical match of tennis
- It would work if it was just an end timer, not deciding the game. So it's at a semi random moment when the game can end and scores are final.
- Harry catches the snitch almost EVERY game. I think the only game he ever played where he didn't catch it was one where he was attacked by dementors and fell off his broom.
  
  If i was the opposing captain, I'd have half the team just fucking with harry. We'd call him "the git who lived" out of pure resentment for his talent.
  Now that I've coined the term, I can't believe Fred and George never called him that.

If you’ve ever played Killer Queen Black, the snail mechanic reminds me a lot of the golden snitch. It is kind of fun to have something that you might not have most players paying attention to become a pivotal component of gameplay. Kind of like stealing bases in baseball. But as an actual sport it’s kind of dumb, I agree about it just being a kids book, don’t think about it too hard.
- Man I wish this game’s servers were still around.
  My local arcade has a cabinet and it’s amazing.
  https://killerqueenarcade.com/
  
  Statistically smallish chance it’s Emporium SF on Divisadero
  
  (Or OG Chicago Emporium) but maybe just the little local spot?!
- Disagree, the snail is just a core part of the game that is always there and you need to pay attention to it. It's not a sudden random event like catching an elusive critter
  
  What are you disagreeing with? The golden snitch, as it is, is a core part of Quiddich in that the game literally requires it to be caught to end. In KQB that is not the case. I was more mentioning that while playing, a whole other mechanic can go on. If you think of Killer Queen Black as a snail-riding game, then there are times where the game can end suddenly from queens dying too much, or berries being collected.

Rowling, although a great storyteller, is no system analyst. Take her magic system for example. "Accio Invisibility Cloak!" Boom, Harry's standing there in plain sight and you've got his cloak.
- Accio doesn’t work on the Deathly Hallows or Horcruxes, so that would not have summoned the Cloak of Invisibility.
  
  sudo Accio Invisibility Cloak
  
  Are his glasses part of him? I'm gonna say no, I'd go for his glasses.
  
  Well we don't really know, since Accio works on wands, but I would call that a sensible house rule.
  
  I call hax
- They literally try this against Harry in book 7 and it doesn't work because Harry's cloak is special (it's one of the deathly hollows)
  
  Ok fine, then my point is still made if the cloak has to be exception for this not to work.
- "Accio Harry's socks!"
  
  Accio Dobby's sock would be more cruel than Crucio.

I thought this was exactly the point, they make fun of the muggles but it's their society which is completely bonkers

It might be because I was young when I read Harry Potter, but the whole series was magical for me exactly because of stuff like this.

But then how could we show Harry Potter as the chosen one?
- If he sealed the goal ring with his massive... wand?
  
  At least "cylinder stuck in ring" would be much easier to solve for Mme Pomfrey.

I think the movies in particular do a poor job showing how hard the snitch is supposed to be to catch. Games literally went on for days according to the books because the seekers weren't pro-level generational talents like Harry.
- Doesn't that kinda enforce the point that the rule/function is stupid?
  
  No because they need a way to end the game
  Time limit is a solution, but it's not the only one. Time limit would change the game so much.
  Do you want basketball on broomsticks or Quidditch?
  In Quidditch, you can have a strategy of never scoring a goal but just playing keep away until your team catches the snitch. It's risky but could be a strategy.
  Time limit would be the better team scoring a couple goals and playing keepaway.
  You could add shot clocks...
- Wasn't there also at least one famus game that went on for a few years.
- Imagine if he could actually see!

Imagine if they were trying to catch the frog on the court though
- A court that was like ten times bigger, everyone's flying, tackling is legal if not encouraged, and there's two people on each team who are there to play dodgeball with bocci balls, not basketball
  
  Yeah, but that's the exciting bit. I don't mind the idea of catching the Snitch as a means of ending the game, even with a marginal point reward. In a close game, this creates an incentive for a behind-but-gaining team to deliberately delay catching the Snitch until they are within range of a win. But - as written - the game is just the "Harry Potter Is The Hero" microcosm. Nothing anyone else does seems to matter.
  Incidentally, this is replicated in the worst parts of the series. The early books give the supporting cast a huge role to play in solving the school mystery, thwarting the villains, and improving the school. Latter books - particularly as you get into the Horcruxes (tell me you've played D&D without telling me you've played D&D, Rowling) - make so much of the supporting cast irrelevant bordering on disposable. By the last book, Rowling is just knocking off side characters casually.
- The frog:
  hop.. hop... hop... 🐸
  Harry:
  SECTUMSEMPRA! 🪄

Can someone please tell me which spell I need to cast to be able to see these "failed to load media 😢" posts ?!
- So, I was on Voyager and decided to try the other open source Lemmy apps. Namely : Eternity, Interstellar, Jerboa, Raccoon, and Thunder.
  And it turns out, all of them can show me this post except Voyager !
  Wtf ?! Why have I been suffering on the one shitty app that can't handle dank memes ?!
  
  Hi, I’m the voyager dev. Are you on android or iOS, and what version? Also are you browsing with the exact same account on each app? It should be working fine :/
  
  Is it something to do with webp?
  
  Interesting, they work for me on Voyager most of the time, on lemm.ee. This post certainly shows. Were you using the native app, pwa, or just website? What operating system?
  I'm not the developer of Voyager, but I love it and would love to help the developer fix bugs if we can track down what's happening
- Expecto Patronum always works for me.
- Ctrl-Shift-R does it for me on desktop.
- The Sync for Lemmy spell works well for me
- Selfo fallatiatus leviosa

https://theowlhouse.fandom.com/wiki/Rusty_Smidge

Same feeling I get from watching a good hockey game that ends up being a shootout. Only worse, like if the first penalty and following goal results in a won game. In the first period.

Maybe the more points you have the easier it gets the see and/or catch the snitch.

It's a metaphor that most people fight about the wrong things in life. They should know better because they saw somebody win before, but they ignore it.

I don't have a problem with the snitch. Your made up game, your prerogatives. It's cool
I have a problem with not having a pair gigantic magical screens showcasing every freaking move it the seekers on the field.
I also have a problem with them not having MORE violence. Outside of unforgivable curses, mental tampering or insta kills (Ie bombarda) , EVERYTHING should be FAIR GAME.
These fuckers should be throwing diffindos left and right, crushing bones, burning skin and gouging each other eyes while putting up shields, auto targeting expelliarmus and self propelled physical objects intercepting every fucking shit that comes their way.
This game could have been awesome, instead we got a lame ass pansy party
- QUIDDITCH, THE BLOOD BOWL EDITION!!!
  I'd watch that.
  
  They can heal basically everything, short of the mentioned
  And given how prone they are to test wizardry ancestry in malicious ways, it strike me odd that the same level of mayhem is not taken into their games
  
  Only if the games are dedicated to Nuffle.
- Stop it, get some help.
  
  I will
  I'll send a letter to Rowling requesting Quidditch Helldivers version, but I'll need some more people to do the same.
  Thanks for offering
- Sounds like a mix of Quiddittch and MMA / Ice Hockey?

Would have made a lot more sense if he was just a starting forward or point guard type of position, being on the first string of the varsity team is still quite remarkable for the first year in school.

it is almost as if HP movies were trash & retarded ..
- They are actually books 📕
  
  Meh, point stands

174 comments