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ModCen

@ moderatecentrist @feddit.uk

Posts
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278
Joined
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  • Actually it's your post that doesn't matter. If you actually read my posts, you'll see that I originally was responding to this post:

    Lol, I wonder when Ukrainians will connect the dots that they’re in this position solely because they put their faith into western powers that didn’t deliver on their side of the bargain.

    I'm saying Ukraine's current position is not "solely because they put their faith into western powers that didn’t deliver on their side of the bargain". Two reasons for this:

    1. Even if you think "western powers" haven't fulfilled "their side of the bargain", this wouldn't be the sole reason for Ukraine's position. Another probably more important reason is that Russia chose to invade Ukraine.
    2. Arguably "western powers", under the Budapest Memorandum, did fulfil "their side of the bargain". The US and the UK (parties to the Budapest Memorandum) didn't seem to commit to fighting a war if Ukraine came under attack. That being said, I absolutely hope that western powers do more to help Ukraine at the moment.

    Now do you understand it?

    Edit: I was rude in this post originally but I've taken away some of the rudeness. To be honest, the post I'm responding to is incredibly rude. Clearly the person who wrote that DID NOT READ WHAT I WROTE.

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  • Sure, if Ukraine had kept their nukes and maintained them, they might not be in this current position.

    But anyway, I was responding to the post that said "they’re [Ukraine] in this position solely because they put their faith into western powers that didn’t deliver on their side of the bargain".

    In my view that just isn't true. Their current position is not "solely" because they put faith into western powers who haven't delivered. Their current position is happening because the Kremlin decided to invade Ukraine. I absolutely hope that western powers do more to help Ukraine, but western powers didn't make Russia invade Ukraine. It also seems to me that western powers probably have upheld "their side of the bargain" under the Budapest Memorandum, although like I say, I hope western powers do more to help Ukraine.

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  • I'm talking about what was actually agreed to. To me it seems that Russia quite clearly abandoned its commitments within the Budapest Memorandum. I don't think you can say that the US and the UK did, unless you're saying that those two countries didn't do enough within the UN Security Council to back Ukraine.

    Surely the primary country to blame for this situation is Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Western countries didn't invade Ukraine.

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  • I looked at the text of the Budapest Memorandum. The main commitments seem to be a commitment to not use force against Ukraine, and a commitment to "seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine... if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression".

    I absolutely hope that every country supports Ukraine and helps them at the moment. I'm just saying that it seems to me that Russia is the one who has abandoned its commitments within the Budapest Memorandum. I don't know if you can say that the US and the UK have (Wikipedia says that France and China gave assurances in separate documents, not in the Budapest Memorandum). Although I absolutely hope that the US will take a more pro-Ukraine stance as soon as possible.

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  • I just looked at the text of the Budapest Memorandum. The US, the UK, and Russia all agreed in that memorandum to "refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine".

    Russia is the country who broke that commitment, when they invaded Ukraine in 2014. I wouldn't say that the US or the UK broke that commitment, because they haven't used force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.

    There's another commitment in there saying that the US, the UK, and Russia will "seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine... if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression". It seems there were UNSC meetings - like this one - shortly after Russia sent troops into Crimea. If you think the US and UK didn't do enough in this regard then fair enough, but I don't their actions were as bad as Russia invading Ukraine.

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  • When did western powers promise that they would stop Putin invading Ukraine?

    Ukraine is in their current position because Putin decided to invade Ukraine

  • Brazilian congress passes bill to cut Jair Bolsonaro’s 27-year prison term

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  • Nice to see a reminder that the law doesn't apply to you if you're famous and influential

  • Canadians Favour Gripen over F-35

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  • I see, thanks for the info. Anyway it's good to see Canada wanting to buy defence equipment from Europe instead of the now unreliable US.

  • Canadians Favour Gripen over F-35

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  • Interesting. I wonder why they're considering the Gripen instead of the Eurofighter Typhoon (German/British/Italian/Spanish) or Dassault Rafale (French). To be honest I really don't know what the differences would be.

  • AOC leads JD Vance for first time in 2028 election matchup: poll

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  • I find it ironic that Vance has talked about Europe supposedly not being democratic and supposedly not listening to the will of the people. Hillary Clinton in 2016 (whether you like her or not) got more votes than Trump. If the US respected the will of the people, they'd get rid of the electoral college, and they would have inaugurated Hillary as president.

  • Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

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  • Well I can see things that are obviously true and you apparently can't, so I guess I'm not as daft as you

  • Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

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  • I didn't say they had exercised force, I said they're likely planning the use of force to take over Taiwan, whether the people of Taiwan want that or not. I would regard that as imperialistic. I think it would be more humane to respect the wishes of Taiwan - if they want to join the PRC then okay, but if they don't then perhaps that should be respected.

  • Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

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  • I don't know for how long they may have planned it. But I think it's likely that they would have created some sort of plans for an invasion of Taiwan, based on their statements where they say they don't rule out force to take over Taiwan. From this article:

    Peng Qing'en, a spokesperson for China's Taiwan Affairs Office, told a regular news conference in Beijing that peaceful "reunification" under the "one country, two systems" model is the fundamental approach to "resolving the Taiwan issue".

    "We are willing to create ample space for peaceful reunification and will spare no effort to pursue this prospect with the utmost sincerity," he said.

    "However, we absolutely will not renounce the use of force and reserve the option to take all necessary measures."

  • Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

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  • Yeah I dunno, how does planning an invasion to expand your land make you imperial. I'm stumped. As for locking up Uyghurs, I didn't say that's imperialist behaviour, I said it's behaviour that I don't think is "left leaning". I guess you could call it tyrannical behaviour.

  • Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

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  • Wanting to invade Taiwan, claiming all of the Spratly and Paracel islands. And as I said there is other behaviour which I don't think is "left leaning", such as locking up Uyghurs in camps.

  • Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

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  • I wouldn't call an imperialist nation "left leaning". To me it's like when the Nazis called themselves socialists. But anyway I guess we will have different perspectives on this.

  • Forget the far right. The kids want a ‘United States of Europe.’

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  • It could help. I think it's perfectly understandable why some people want a United States of Europe. Look at the Ukraine conflict. Ukraine has suffered a huge amount because even though their military is incredibly capable, it doesn't have the same scale of resources that Russia has. If a common European defence organisation had already been in place before 2014, with Ukraine included, then maybe Putin would have been deterred from invading.

  • Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

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  • I don't need to be a fed to have that view

  • Forget the far right. The kids want a ‘United States of Europe.’

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  • Maybe more European co-operation would be good. The world right now consists of powerful nations (USA, China, Russia, and India in the future). Those nations will probably try to push everybody else around (in fact they're already doing this). If Europe works together then it might be able to stand up for itself better.