Let's talk about Ukraine's personnel problem....

You're viewing a single thread.

27 comments

This is kinda shit. Beaux is really uninformed here and could do a lot better. He talks about Azov only being a small number and contextualises that within the size of the entire military as a percentage. This is shit because it absurdly posits that Azov are the only fascists, the fascists don't riddle the rest of the military as well, that OTHER fascist groups like Aidar, Right Sector and others don't exist, it acts like if you're not in Azov, you're not a fascist and no other fascists exist.
In addition to this, it acts like fascists don't already have electoral success. He quotes one of the parties as only having 1-2% of the vote and completely ignores the fact fascists fill the other party. He seems completely ignorant to the fact that they voted to make Bandera a hero of ukraine, a very clear signal that a majority of them are A-OK with fascism.
In addition to this, he seems structurally ignorant. He seems like he doesn't really understand how a small number of fascists might be able to get any politician to do literally anything they want because if they don't well they can just kill them or disappear their children and families.
The most important structural aspect of this issue is the Ministry of Internal Affairs .
Deputy Minister for Internal Affairs, Vadym Troyan, Azov Batallion nazi.
Minister for Internal Affairs, Arsen Avakov, Azov Batallion commander and nazi.
Why are these two important? Because the Ministry of Internal Affairs holds executive power over a HUGE amount of the important levers of power in the country, including:
undefined

National Guard of Ukraine National Police of Ukraine Special Tasks Patrol Police State Border Guard Service of Ukraine Ukrainian Sea Guard State Emergency Service of Ukraine State Migration Service of Ukraine
These roles, in control of nazis, gives free reign to the nazis to do ANYTHING they want. They control law and order in the country.
If you try to do anything the nazis don't want they can just kill you or your family and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The nazis are the police. They will not investigate that killing afterwards.
What environment does this create? One where the nazis get everything they want because everyone knows they can't go against them.
Beaux is way off the mark here and the structural control that the nazis have gives them incredible power that is being ignored.
The only way you're getting nazis out of political power in this country is killing off these two leaders and replacing leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs with some absolutely ruthless fuckers that purge the entire police force to denazify it, then go on a campaign of denazification throughout the rest of the power levers. These two guys are (as far as I'm concerned) the biggest targets that need taking down in the entire country.
- :this:
  
  I wanna add that this is just where I'm at right now. I haven't done a full audit of every department and structure, I haven't dug into every single background, I wouldn't even know where to start with anyone that isn't a member of Azov historically because information about OTHER nazi groups is thin on the ground despite there being a fucking lot of them.
  There are likely other major structural levers that need cleaning, these are just the two most obvious ones I've managed to learn about so far. I'm sure I'll stumble across others as people with this ideology don't get into this kind of role without having a shit load of support in the entire structure.
  
  You're doing great work here.
  :fidel-salute:
- Even if there were only a few nazis, they would be a few nazis who are massively empowered by Russia's enemies when it's convenient. You don't need that many extremists to destabilize a buffer state, since buffer states have to constantly thread the needle to avoid conflict, and it's not that hard for nazis to sabotage that.
  Consider that the last two decades of chaos of imperial violence in the middle east were triggered by a handful of terrorists.
- Also the Azov themselves (their paranilitary active wing) are easily into 5-6k numbers rn. They by all accounts (even Ukrainian propaganda ones) basicaly run and dominate the defense of Mariupol, a city/erea of half a million. And they are spread all over Ukraine on top . Literally impossible for them to be smol bean <1k force.
  They , along with other fascist groups, are easily the most active , best trained and founded and most importantly organized political groups in Ukraine. They were from day 1 after 2014 and are even more so today. Libs not understanding power politics and influence outside of parliament numbers is expected
- this sounds like a fun thing to post on r/BeauOfTheFifthColumn/ over on :reddit-logo: to see what kind of small hornet nest you're kicking
  
  You're welcome to but make sure you correct it a bit since I was off a bit as the positions have changed... Still looking into them now though, not really convinced they were true changes for the better.
- A correction: According to wikipedia Avakov isn't the minister of internal affairs anymore, it's this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denys_Monastyrsky
  Also it seems Troyan isn't on his position anymore either, the new minister purged him.
  
  Ahhh well now I'm the fool. Still rather important that they had more than half a decade to carry nazify these departments and give nazis free reign to do anything.
  Need to dig into these other two.
  
  it's far from inconceivable that they "cleaned up" their image before having the entire Western world fixate on the nation
  Years of Nazi influence doesn't just evaporate after an election
  
  I won't believe that the country is heading in a positive direction until the communism bans are lifted.
  
  same tbh
  
  This Monastyrsky guy is, seemingly, according to his wiki page, a lib. Didn't dig further than that.
  
  Gonna have to get his name in Cyrillic and go digging through Ukrainian-language content. Nobody knew Ukraine existed in English until 2 weeks ago. This makes research painfully slow and search engines are very poorly optimised for the language.
  
  o7 godspeed.
  
  Nobody knew Ukraine existed in English until 2 weeks ago
  hey that's not fair, there's loads of articles from the bbc and other sources about ukraine's nazi problem from the past decade that everyone in the west refuses to acknowledge now
- It also assumes that a tepid Nazi, who believes the stuff but isn't open or energetic about it, would either join Azov or simply doesn't exist. Given that the Ukrainian government is comfortable with handing weapons and support to Azov and whoever else, that tepid Nazi doesn't need to risk playing his hand.
  
  Right, a good comparison here is with our own movements.
  How many sympathisers do we need before we have 100 communists willing to die for it?
  How many sympathisers are needed for 2500? 10,000 fighters?
  A fuck load of people have to be supporters before you find those people willing to die for those beliefs.

27 comments