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Zionismus- und Nazianschuldigungen | Zionism and nazism accusations

English version below.


Hallo zusammen,

in den letzten Tagen gab es einige Anschuldigungen sowohl gegen die Moderatoren von [email protected] als auch gegen unser Adminteam Nazis oder Zionisten zu sein, vorrangig aufgrund des Umgangs mit Kritik an Israel.

Wir weisen diese Anschuldigungen hiermit ausdrücklich zurück und werden derartige Anschuldigungen nicht tolerieren. Insbesondere sind Personen die Andere derart beschuldigen, ohne dass es dafür konkrete objektive Anlässe gibt, auf feddit.org nicht willkommen. Dies ist bereits von unserer Regel zu respektvollem Umgang gedeckt, welcher hier in keinster Weise erbracht wird.

Zunächst einmal möchten wir daran erinnern, dass die Nutzung von feddit.org mit den Rechten und Gesetzen der DACH-Region vereinbar sein muss. Dies ist explizit in unseren Instanzregeln erwähnt, und beinhaltet Deutschland (D), Österreich (A), und Schweiz (CH). Die Infrastruktur von feddit.org wird von der Fediverse Foundation, einem gemeinnützigen Verein in Österreich betreut. Unser Adminteam, welches sich um die Instanzweite Moderation, Organisation, sowie Mitbetreuung der Infrastruktur von feddit.org kümmert ist in Deutschland ansässig. Da wir allgemein den deutschsprachigen Raum als primäre Zielgruppe haben versuchen wir auch entsprechend die Gesetze der Schweiz zu berücksichtigen.

Auch wenn wir nicht aktiv nach Gesetzesverstößen suchen müssen, ist es zumindest in einigen Fällen nötig nach Kenntnisnahme einzugreifen. Dies beinhaltet z.B. wenn Moderatoren oder Admins Meldungen zu Posts oder Kommentaren erhalten, aber auch wenn derartige Inhalte zufällig entdeckt werden, wenn man auf Lemmy unterwegs ist.

https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung

Beim „Hosting“ haftet der Diensteanbieter beschränkt, sofern der Anbieter

  • keine tatsächliche Kenntnis von konkreten rechtswidrigen Tätigkeiten oder Inhalten hat und sich in Bezug auf Schadenersatzansprüche auch keiner Tatsachen oder Umstände bewusst ist, aus denen die rechtswidrige Tätigkeit oder Inhalte offensichtlich hervorgehen, und
  • sobald er diese Kenntnis oder dieses Bewusstsein erlangt, zügig tätig wird, um den Zugang zu den rechtswidrigen Inhalten zu sperren oder diese zu entfernen.

Relevante Straftatbestände sind unter anderem Folgende:

Rechtliche Instrumente gegen die Verbreitung von antisemitischen oder terroristische Handlungen gutheißenden Äußerungen, des Deutschen Bundestages (Deutschland)

§ 130 Volksverhetzung (Deutschland)

Einige weiterführende Links:

Wir stehen in diesem Fall vollständig hinter den Moderatoren von [email protected], bei rechtlichen Unsicherheiten lieber zu viel als zu wenig zu entfernen.

Auslöser für die aktuelle Debatte ist u.a. dieser Post, welcher der Entfernung eines Kommentars folgte, für einen Vergleich des Nationalsozialismus mit der aktuellen Situation in Israel, was unserem Verständnis nach als Verharmlosung des Nationalsozialismus betrachtet werden kann. Derartige Aussagen können u.a. zu Haftstrafen führen. In dem Post wurde u.a. behauptet, dass die Entfernung zionistische Hintergründe hätte, eine Anschuldigung die grundsätzlich von entsprechenden Nachweisen unterstützt sein sollte, und vor welcher ausgeschlossen werden sollte, dass es alternative Erklärungen gibt.

Wir werden nicht jeden Kommentar der Ansatzweise in die Richtung geht entfernen, jedoch behalten wir uns vor Personen die unsere Instanz, Admins, Moderatoren, oder andere Nutzer ohne stichhaltige Argumente als Nazis oder Zionisten beschuldigen, insbesondere wenn dies mehr als ein vereinzelter Kommentar ist, permanent von feddit.org auszuzschließen.

Hierzu gehören auch Inhalte wie dieser Post von @[email protected], welcher kurz davor bereits aufgrund von vielfachen Aufrufen zu Gewalt und Terror von unserer Instanz gebannt wurde. Diese Person scheint zudem auch die Instanz quokk.au zu administrieren, oder zumindest gute Beziehungen zum Admin zu haben, da wir in nahem zeitlichen Zusammenhang eine Zensur auf Fediseer von quokk.au erhalten haben, in welcher wir als Zionisten und Nazis beschuldigt werden, und @[email protected] in den Raum gestellt hat quokk.au von uns zu deföderieren (Archiv).

Falls diese Zensur von quokk.au nicht zeitnah zurückgenommen werden sollte werden wir quokk.au von unserer Seite für diese anhaltslosen und unwahren Anschuldigungen deföderieren. quokk.au ist eine relativ kleine Instanz mit nur wenigen lokalen Nutzern, welche versucht hat eine alternative Newscommunity aufzubauen, die nicht auf einer der "großen" Instanzen liegt. Leider scheint auch diese Community eine schlechte Alternative zu sein, wenn dies der reguläre Umgang des dortigen Admins ist.


Hello all,

in the last few days there have been some accusations against the moderators of [email protected] as well as against our admin team of being Nazis or Zionists, mainly because of the way of dealing with criticism of Israel.

We explicitly reject these accusations and will not tolerate such accusations. In particular, people who accuse others in this way without any concrete objective reason are not welcome on feddit.org. This is already covered by our rule of respectful interaction.

First of all, we would like to remind you, that the use of feddit.org must be compliant with the rights and regulations of the DACH region. This is explicitly mentioned in our instance rules, and includes Germany (D), Austria (A) and Switzerland (CH). The infrastructure of feddit.org is maintaind by the Fediverse Foundation, a non-profit association in Austria. Our Admin team, which takes care of the instance wide moderation, organization and supporting infrastructure operations, is based in Germany. Since we primarily target the German speaking coutries, we also try to comply with laws and regulations of Switzerland.

Even if we do not have to actively search for violations of the law, it is necessary to intervene after becoming aware of them. This includes, for example when moderators or admins receive messages about posts or comments, but also when such content is discovered by chance when browsing Lemmy.

https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung

In the case of “hosting”, the service provider has limited liability if the provider

  • has no actual knowledge of specific unlawful activities or content and is not aware of any facts or circumstances with regard to claims for damages from which the unlawful activity or content is obvious, and
  • as soon as it obtains this knowledge or awareness, takes swift action to block access to the illegal content or to remove it.

Relevant criminal offenses include the following:

Legal instruments against the dissemination of anti-Semitic statements or statements condoning terrorist acts of the German Parliament (German)

Section 130 Incitement of masses

Some further links, mostly in German:

In this instance, we fully support the moderators of [email protected] to potentially remove too much rather than too little in case of legal uncertainties.

One of the triggers for the current debate is this post, which followed the removal of a comment comparing National Socialism with the current situation in Israel, which can be considered a trivialization of National Socialism. Such statements can, among other things, lead to imprisonment. Among other things, the post claimed that the removal had a Zionist motive, an accusation that should always be supported by appropriate evidence and prior to which it should be ruled out that there are alternative explanations.

We will not be removing every comment that goes even remotely in this direction, but we reserve the right to permanently ban users from feddit.org who make unfounded accusations, such as labeling our instance, admins, moderators, or other users as Nazis or Zionists, without substantial supporting arguments. This is especially the case when this is recurring behavior and not an isolated incident.

This includes content such as this post by @[email protected], who was banned from our instance shortly before that post due to multiple incitements of violence and terrorism. This person also seems to be the admin of the instance quokk.au, or at least to have good relations to the admin, since we received a censure on Fediseer from quokk.au around the same time, in which we are being accused of being Zionists and Nazis, and @[email protected] has suggested to defederate quokk.au from us (archive).

If this censure by quokk.au is not withdrawn in a timely manner, we will defederate quokk.au from our side for these unsubstantiated and untrue accusations. quokk.au is a relatively small instance with only a few local users, which tried to build an alternative news community that is not on one of the “big” instances. Unfortunately, this community also seems to be a poor alternative if this is how their admin typically acts.

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223 comments
  • As a Jewish person, and I know there's not a lot of us on Lemmy, I want to sincerely thank you for standing up, and enforcing your rules, I wish a much bigger amount of instances would adopt something similar, even tho I know it's not going to happen. It's very sad how many people use the existence of the sole Jewish state for antisemitism and how widely accepted are calls for a genocide of Jewish Israelis. I don't comment about Israel-related stuff usually, but I couldn't go by there.

    • It's really unfortunate that the Jews running the sole Jewish state had to set it up as an apartheid state on stolen land, thus tarring everyone of the faith unfairly with the stench of their genocidal colonial project.

    • how many people use the existence of the sole Jewish state for antisemitism and how widely accepted are calls for a genocide of Jewish Israelis.

      If someone claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link, they're lying.

      Where are you seeing "calls for a genocide of Jewish Israelis?" Which instance? Because I've never seen that, and it goes against the rules of every community and would be removed immediately. Because you made it up.

      By the way, just so y'all know, downvotes are not a substitute for evidence. Every downvote this comment gets is just one more person who was 100% incapable of providing a shred of evidence of this anywhere.

      • As a c/germany mod it had several cases of that. One non-germany case: https://feddit.org/post/12370463/6604714

        E2: Comment by a user who also wrote things like this.

        E1: So: You're wrong. Just because you don't see those cases, they don't have to not exist. And they sometimes don't get removed, this one probably because no one reported it, since everyone (myself included) thought other people would report it.

        • E2: Comment by a user who also wrote things like this.

          Double commenting to respond to this edit.

          Hilarious that you're trying to twist that into being pro-Palestine. The idea of sending pro-Palestine protesters to Gaza is a common right-wing/Zionist talking point. For example, in 2024, a bill called "The Antisemitism Community Service Act" was proposed in the US House of Representatives that would sentence people arrested at pro-Palestine protests to 6 months of community service in Gaza. Zionists, such as this user, love to try to delegitimize critics of Israel by telling them to go to Gaza themselves if they care so much.

        • You misread the comment, they're on your side.

          Critism of the Gaza war/genocide, governmental issues etc are allowed I think. You just can’t say Israel should/must not exist (when you agree with that, you are a “Zionist”) or all Jews should be removed/killed/dead (antisemitism), things like that. Both are illegal under German law. Most of your instance and some other instances and users are against feddit.org for this reason.

          What they're saying is that the reason people are upset with feddit.org's moderation policy is that those people want to say stuff like "kill all Jews." They seem to agree with the moderation policy, saying "criticism of the government is allowed." Nothing in their comment suggests that they're criticizing the policy on the basis that they want to say, "Kill all Jews," all they're doing is describing (and defending) your policy.

          Try again.

          • If you read the thread, you would have seen that it actually is the correct interpretation of this comment. Comment-OP also didn't care to correct me, because they hadn't anything to correct. And I will not start discussing about it just because you don't want to be wrong on something.

            • Lol. It's not that "I don't want to be wrong on something," it's just that I am, objectively, not wrong.

              Let's look into this user a bit more to see if that sheds any light on which interpretation is correct, shall we? Did you know that they were banned from db0 for saying that the situation in Gaza is not a genocide? Huh! Weird that they would say that if they're so anti-Israel, don't you think?

              Here is another exchange that proves they're on your side. In response to someone criticizing feddit's policy by saying, "Germany not be a fucking Nazi challenge impossible," they replied, "They’re Nazi by not questioning the statehood of Israel? The internet was a mistake."

              As for the context of the thread, it was a different user who said, "Memes from a Zionist instance are never on my mind." Then someone said, "Care to elaborate," and this user chimed in to offer their own perspective on the controversy, which was a supportive, Zionist perspective, claiming that the only things feddit bans are things like "Kill all Jews," and that anyone who's upset about it is only upset because they can't say that.

              I don't know why they didn't reply to clear up the misunderstanding. I'm not them.

              This is so ridiculous, the only, singular example you can come up with is attacking a guy who's on your side, literally defending your instance's policy. What a joke! Talk about a persecution complex.

              And then you say you "don't want to discuss it," because you know your position is not defensible.

              Most of your instance and some other instances and users are against feddit.org for this reason.

              This makes it abundantly clear that they are describing other people's positions and not their own.

              E: It's amazing how many people on here are downvoting me and interpreting the user's statements as them being a raging antisemite, and yet, somehow, they are not banned from feddit. I think it would be very funny for feddit to ban someone who's been going around defending their moderation policy, so please, by all means, tell your mods to ban them! I'll make a post about it so that everyone around the fediverse who can read can all laugh at you.

223 comments