Damn I'd like to know what war crimes AmeriKKKa finds "too egregious"
Someone please tell me if Russia has done anything the US hasn't done so far? The Russians haven't done a second Hiroshima, Dresden, or My Lai and I just missed it?
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Based on the Newsweek article and wiki*edit numbers, Russia seems to have a slightly higher civilian casualty rate on a per week basis than the USA did in Iraq, and this is with official US govt numbers so being super generous to the usa.
I assume you mean slightly lower. And using US civilian body counts and Wikipedia to gage the civilian casualties of the Shock And Awe invasion of Iraq is literally useless. We know the Pentagon does massive undercounts and conspires to covers up civilian deaths only admitting to them when it's clear as day. I wouldn't trust Russian or Ukranian civilian body counts either.
No, I mean that using the most generous estimates I could find the USA killed only slightly fewer civilians on a week by week basis than Russia has so far; the USA was like 240 and russia was like 280. Going with the strongest argument FOR the USA because libs would inevitably say I am using putinganda numbers; the numbers I used for russia came from the UN.
Some reports literally put Iraqi casualty's at over 300 within 2 days of the invasion, with thousands of injured . The US fired hundreds of cruise missiles into dense slums and dropped 2,000 pound bunker buster bombs leveling building after building, bombed a refugee bus, massacred people in the street. Al-Noor hospital was overflowing within 6 days of the invasion, the 27th of March(US invasion started on the 20th) Abu Taleb massacre alone killed dozens, could recount horror after horror. But go ahead and engage in a form of war crimes denial to appease liberals.
You need to chill the fuck out, I am not denying anything just creating a point of comparison that I ADMITTED is overly generous to the USA implying that ther real number is MUCH WORSE. This is math averaging things over 8 years, not denying all the individual atrocities the US committed.
I am chill thats just the reality of it, Read Robert Fisks on the ground accounts they're powerful. If you tell liberals "you're right the wiki and pentagons numbers show slightly less civilian casualty's" your just giving them ground and will never change their mind. Hammer home how terrible the US is, recount individual war crimes, assume the largest counts of deaths are correct. We aint gonna make any liberals anti war by saying the Russian Invasion of Ukraine is less bloody then the much more massive US invasion of Iraq. I mean really why bother? If they call you a Putin shill or whatever laugh in their face. And as a general rule one can convince liberals sure but never appease them, they'll have you moving the goal post over and over and over.
I am not arguing with libs though, I was doing it for myself and comrades that needed a point of comparison, you always want to build the strongest case that you can so that if you are wrong you are erring on being wrong in the right direction. Arguing with libs on this is completely pointless because they have completely lost their minds, any statement that doesn't immediately toe the party line makes you worse than a nazi in their eyes. Unjustly accusing people of being war crimes deniers is not fucking cool, and considering we get that shit all the time from libs I would expect better from people here.
Fair enough. Apologies for being grand standing. I guess I've just seen excuses for NATO and Imperialism bleed into online and even irl leftist spaces so much its making me a little too bitter. I had a long time peace activist friend irl literally yelling crap about how Russia cant just get away with this someone has to "do something" blah blah. Its all just so jarring ya know.
My sister is in the "do something" crowd. One of the smartest, compassionate, and kindest people I know and yet she is completely bought in hook line and sinker to us getting involved. I think that's one of the the worst bit about the propaganda machine is that it take the best parts of people and perverts them to it's ends.
I agree I think especially sense R2P(responsibility to protect) was put into the UN in 2005 and then invoked to justify the bombing of Libya humanitarian interventionist propaganda has been deeply insidious. Every modern empire has a narrative of itself as a great liberator to an extent but the Samantha Power Ideology is a bug in every liberals brain. In a way those Ukrainian Foreign Legion dipshits are like the Jihadis of "humanitarian intervention" except unlike the Islamist they are fighting for something mediocre lol.
Plus sense the vast majority of people are not aware of world events unless the war machine wants them to be they'll think we haven't done anything yet even when we clearly have. Syria was/is so emblematic of that. Most Americans still think we kept our hands clean of that "civil war" despite Operation Timber Sycamore, US/Israeli bombing and our NATO ally Turkey and the Saudis/Qataris running amok.