Ig Nutomic really hasn't changed his stance on their infamous DM and this time, it was on a public thread
On any of the donation threads where it came up and he replied to it, the most he ever did was some half hearted corporate PR "apology" (ironic)
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The fact that you think this is worthy of posting in this community is bizarre. It's hard for me to imagine a more agreeable and reasonable statement.
A lot of users on hexbear and lemmygrad, along with some users on .ml, have extreme political positions that are worth documenting in this community. But I don't think this post fits the criteria at all. In general, I don't think Nutomic has ever really expressed any tankie opinions, so I don't understand why people continue to persecute him while using the software that he helped build.
If you have a problem with lemmy.ml as a server that's one thing, but it's pretty trashy to harass the volunteer developer of a FOSS platform that you use for free. How about finding someone else to pick on, there's plenty of worse people out there.
A) There's literally a pinned post in this comm that this post is, essentially, a sequel too.
B.1) One of the things they always say on the Tankie Triad is that their instance(s) are trans safe spaces, how can .ml be a trans safe space with a literal transphobe as main admin?
B.2) There's no place in a just world for transphobia
I don't see how that's transphobic tbh
allowing biological men to compete as women [is bourgeois = bad]
This is blatant transphobia. Just imagine it with nationalities : "allowing people born in Mexico to compete under USA banner is bad" would feel awful.
Man, there was an example that was actually done by history, right there for you
"The blacks clearly have natural physical advantages over white people. They have had hundreds of years of breeding for strength, and endurance, from selective buck breeding of the slave holders. They have no place playing baseball with with white men."
The geographic location of someone's birthplace has no inherent relevance to their athletic ability.
Biological sex has a major influence on athletic ability.
Apples to oranges.
Depending on the sport it can have. Come and try to beat some of the old ones of my town to a game of Pétanque, i guarantee you being born in France would help you.
More generally, as gender defined at birth, geographic location can have a huge impact on the acquired skills (different training, funds to sports, mindsets, etc.). The impact of biological sex (and i guess what you mean is innate advantages) is also greatly majored : MTF athletes would win every game if that was a great deal, and that's not the case.
Apples and oranges are fruit, round, sweet, can be pressed in juice, are a way of describing colors, are both the name of tech companies, etc. Just because there is a slightest difference in two concepts does not make a comparison impossible.
Depending on the sport it can have. Come and try to beat some of the old ones of my town to a game of Pétanque, i guarantee you being born in France would help you.
If someone was born in France but then moved to another country as an infant and grew up somewhere else, they wouldn't have any advantage at Petanque as a result of being born in France. Thus we can easily observe that the location of birth is not a significant factor in determining ability, but rather the socialization that occurs as a young person can be a factor. We can use the birth location as an imperfect proxy for making assumptions about developmental experiences, but it's not a direct influence.
In contrast, if someone were born with an XY genotype (male) and socialized as a female from birth, that person would still possess inherent athletic advantages over females. Biological sex has a direct influence over the physical characteristics of an organism.
It's not a slight difference, it's a fundamental difference that makes your comparison flawed.
3 points :
first of all, this disagreements just focuses on the ‘birth’ part, which is not the main part of my original statement. Replace ‘place of birth’ with ‘place of education’ or ‘origins’ and you got the same result.
Fair enough.
last, being born male can also comes with innate disadvantages (less tolerance to pain, less flexibility) and acquired disadvantages (less elegance, more competition), not even including the hardship of being trans in our societies and the impacts of transition treatments. ‘Male chromosomes advantages’ mostly are strength and endurance, which are not the only factor in sports.
So you do acknowledge that there are innate differences between males and females, although you prefer to focus on the disadvantages rather than the advantages.
Plus most of the factors that disadvantage women in sports come from social background rather than biological ones.
I would agree with that statement. But that still means that if you equalized the social differences, the biological ones would remain. Although it would be a much smaller discrepancy, it still wouldn't be an even playing field. It's just unfair, and that bothers me.
And in the end, we cannot observe an overwhelming winrate in favor of trans athletes.
This isn't a topic where the statistics are helpful whatsoever. The sample size is way too small, and there isn't any control group, so the relative performance of transgender athletes could be significantly affected by any number of variables aside from their transgender status.
Thanks for this very fair reply !
I agree on the last point, the actual statistics have no real use in our discussion since we seem to be in a theoretical matter (i used to discuss this subject with people actually thinking that it would lead to under representation of cis women in winning women athletes, that's where this argument came from).
The two remaining points (differences and fairness) are kinda the same to my eyes. I'd say i do not focus on disadvantages rather than advantages, i just do not care for any of them, in my eyes they cancel each other out. Now, saying that those differences make the sport thing unfair, does not make sense to me : sport is unfair. We sometimes try to make it more fair with arbitrary categories based on gender, age, weight, etc, but in the end we cannot erase advantages. Some swimmers have genetically better lungs or bigger arms, and we do not make a special category for them, and we shouldn't : that's the point, seeing who's better. There is an unending list of differences between athletes that can lead to (dis)advantages : i think there is no sense trying to erase them all, and even if you did, trans athletes is such a small sample as you said, with such little and debated differences, that even if there were actual advantages, it would be so long down the list of advantages to erase that it should not matter anyway.
To sum up, in my opinion : trans athletes do not have advantages, and even if they had, they would be far less impacting than other advantages that we do not and should not account for.
Then you should fucking follow your leader you nazi piece of shit
It doesn't quite fit, true, but Nutomic is a tankie. He's not as mask-off as the other lemmy developers, but he's still a tankie, transphobic and is okay with tankie extremism.
Also consider this a warning: no apologia -- No defending tankies.
If he is a tankie, then post the evidence. If he is transphobic, post the evidence.
I don't agree with either of those assertions. To me, this post borders on harassment.
Nutomic's fellow developer, co-admin of ML and admin of grad claims that the full scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia was a "negotiation tactic".
Mass summary killing of civilians in North Eastern Kyiv suburbs during the battle for Kyiv was a "negotiation tactic". The brutal siege of Mariupol with a mother fucking bombing of a maternity clinic and mass killings of hiding civilians in the Mariupol drama theatre was a "negotiation tactic".
Nutomic clearly has no issue with this (because if he did, he wouldn't be working with that degenerate). He also has no issue constant support for russian propaganda demonstrated by his co-admin of ML.
It's like claiming the cameraman working for RT isn't a supporter of russian genocidal imperialism because you don't see him make any statements on the camera.
Nutomic clearly has no issue with this (because if he did, he wouldn’t be working with that degenerate). He also has no issue constant support for russian propaganda demonstrated by his co-admin of ML.
I don't agree with this assumption. By that logic, one could argue that anyone who uses Lemmy has no issue with those positions (because if we did, we wouldn't be supporting the project of that "degenerate"). Sometimes in life we are forced to accept imperfect allies in order to accomplish our goals.
I am not supporting Dessalines or his degenerate tankies. I use Windows, that doesn't mean I "support" Microsoft.
Let me try a different approach. Imagine the following hypothetical scenario:
Al-Queda stages an invasion of the north eastern part of the US. They land in Long Island and during their attempt to reach NYC, start mass summary killing of civilians in Long Island before the US army is able to kick them out.
Individual A claims that this a mere negotiation tactic and that the mass killing in Long Island are a CIA fabrication. Individual A also labels any source other than Al-Queda propaganda media as misinformation and routinely promotes new media from Al-Queda's propaganda arm.
Individual B is publicly associated with individual A and also just so happens to have a avatar of Sayyid Qutb, one of the key ideological sources of Al-Queda and other violet jihadist organizations.
I somehow doubt you would take a statement from me about "Sometimes in life..." as a legitimate argument. On the contrary, you would probably think I am being rather provincial and arrogant, no?
I am not supporting the Dessalines or his degenerate tankies. I use Windows, that doesn’t mean I “support” Microsoft.
I understand that. Similarly, just because Nutomic is working with Dessalines to code an open source software project doesn't imply that they share the exact same beliefs.
I don't get how your analogy relates to this discussion. I'm not sure what it is that you think you're fighting against, but I disagree with your aggressive and judgmental approach. It seems to me that you are provoking unecessary conflict against the wrong people.
I am pointing out that your tone comes as condescending and paternalistic "Sometimes in life..." considering Dessalines openly supports mass killings, promotes russian propaganda and claims all facts that don't align with his worldview are a CIA conspiracy.
It is reasonable to question Nutomic's association with Dessalines. It's not a matter of being rigid in your views and not having an appreciation for a "big tent" approach. A big tent approach is not a deus ex machina that magically solves anything and everything. There are times when it viable and there are times when it is not.
Furthermore, the issue is not black and white. There are many other options available. Nutomic can take over Lemmy development while Dessalines can admin/mod ML and grad (and tankies can give him money for it). Nutomic can replace his Che Guevara avatar with something neutral, like the Lemmy mouse with a tool icon to highlight that he is a Lemmy dev.
This is clearly a major issue. Just look at the funding request thread on LW. I am not the only one who is unhappy with the tankie affiliation. Even on other social networks, Lemmy has a reputation as being infested with tankies, this is a clear blocker for growth.
I am being condescending because I consider your perspective to be naive and short sighted.
You're a person who makes judgments about others based on hearsay and attacks them without even doing a bare minimum of research to validate whether the rumors you heard were true. You're a person who is more than happy to calumniate others for little to no reason while being oblivious to your own flaws.
In my view, users who believe the world revolves around them and relentlessly attack and shame anyone who doesn't accept their version of reality are a much bigger obstacle to the growth of Lemmy than the tankie reputation. Many tankies fit that description, but so do many non-tankies, such as yourself in this case.
As someone who possesses open-mindedness and empathy, it's incredibly frustrating to watch so many lemmings act so self-righteous and judgmental towards each other, while pretending their own shit doesn't stink. I'm trying to help contribute and build towards a diverse and healthy online forum for open intellectual discussion, but it seems that the vast majority of people are too immature to realize such a goal.
For you something like denying mass killings seems to be of no importance. This is not the case for most people. It is not exclusive to my worldview.
Dessalines views and actions (that are well documented) are so extreme that there will be pushback when someone collaborates with him. Lecturing people is not going to change that.
The obstacles to growth is having a member of the development team who spews degenerate tankie bullshit (while almost certainly never having lived in Ukraine or knowing Ukrainian).
You claim to be for open-mindedness and empathy. Yet you are not open to any other actions (I provided examples in my previous) other than full acceptance of Nutomic's affiliation with Dessalines and his despicable bullshit.
But you do you man. I think anyone reading this thread can come to their own conclusions about who is immature or not.
Everything exists on a spectrum. You're choosing to see things in black and white, but that doesn't correspond to reality. I am absolutely certain that you hold political views that many other people would characterize as unacceptable and unethical. However, I also recognize that even though you may be wrong about certain things, that doesn't completely erase your value as a human being. I can only hope that you someday come to understand this fact.
I'm going to assume you are asking this in good faith and to be respectful to Nutomic.
Transphobic evidence: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068
I couldn't find anything about him being a tankie but I didn't look for very long. If someone has a screenshot they can reply with it.
However, I think allowing Dessalines to blatantly censor anti Russian and anti ccp posts on lemmy.ml and his "support from capitalist government = bad" ideology from the picture above is reason enough to call him a tankie.
I've seen it. I don't agree that it was a transphobic statement.
I couldn’t find anything about him being a tankie but I didn’t look for very long.
And yet you're happy to assume anyway. Seems like an unfair and biased judgment on your part.
If he is transphobic, post the evidence.
... It's right there in the post...
I don't see how that statement is transphobic.
Don't care what you think. Evidently, you're in the wrong with everyone disagreeing with you. Take the hint and step down.
I've given you a warning, drop the topic.
Evidently, you’re in the wrong with everyone disagreeing with you.
Flawless logic.
Is it allowed for people to express disagreement on this community or does everyone always have to agree with you?
I hold admins to a much higher standard. You don't look good right now, and it'll be better if you just drop the topic.
so I don’t understand why people continue to persecute him while using the software that he helped build.
It's an open source project. If you want strict controls over who uses your software, an open source license is not the right choice.
Sure, I understand that. Which is part of the reason I'm skeptical of tankie accusations, because building open source software doesn't seem like the actions of a tankie. The structure of Lemmy is decentralized and grassroots, while tankies tend to support and advocate for centralized and authoritarian structures. So it's kind of the opposite of the purported beliefs of tankies.
Tell us you’re a terf without saying you hate trans people.
Transphobic bigotry means you shouldn't be breathing, you piece of shit. Fuck you.
Filling the thread with hate and death wishes. What a positive vibe your bringing. Real good faith engagement.
omg a trans-inclusive space had a hostile reaction to transphobia?
someone alert the press, this is BIG.