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Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France

www.tf1info.fr INFO TF1/LCI - Le fondateur et PDG de la messagerie Telegram interpellé en France | TF1 INFO

[VIDÉO] Selon nos informations, le fondateur et PDG de la messagerie sécurisée Telegram a été interpellé ce samedi soir à l'aéroport du Bourget. Pavel Durov, franco-russe de 39 ans, était accompagné de son garde du corps et d'une femme. - INFO TF1/LCI - Le fondateur et PDG de la messagerie Telegram ...

INFO TF1/LCI - Le fondateur et PDG de la messagerie Telegram interpellé en France | TF1 INFO

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Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France

www.tf1info.fr /justice-faits-divers/info-tf1-lci-le-fondateur-et-pdg-de-la-messagerie-cryptee-telegram-interpelle-en-france-2316072.html

Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France

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Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France

www.tf1info.fr /justice-faits-divers/info-tf1-lci-le-fondateur-et-pdg-de-la-messagerie-cryptee-telegram-interpelle-en-france-2316072.html

Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France

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Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France

www.tf1info.fr /justice-faits-divers/info-tf1-lci-le-fondateur-et-pdg-de-la-messagerie-cryptee-telegram-interpelle-en-france-2316072.html

Founder and CEO of Telegram messaging service arrested in France

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::: spoiler Pavel Valeryevich Durov
(Russian: Павел Валерьевич Дуров; born 10 October 1984)[4] is a Russian-born Emirati entrepreneur who is known for founding the social networking site VK and the app Telegram Messenger. He is the younger brother of Nikolai Durov. As of 29 September 2022, his net worth is estimated at US$15.1 billion. In 2022, he was recognized as the richest expat in the United Arab Emirates, according to Forbes. In February 2023, Arabian Business named him the most powerful entrepreneur in Dubai. :::

translation of major allegation :
"The (French) Justice system considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with law enforcement, and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable numbers, cryptocurrencies, etc.) make it an accomplice to drug trafficking, pedocriminal offenses, and scams."
- What a fucking horseshit excuse for law enforcement.
  Encrypted communication should be a human right.
  
  The issue I see with Telegram is that they retain a certain control over the content on their platform, as they have blocked channels in the past. That's unlike for example Signal, which only acts as a carrier for the encrypted data.
  If they have control over what people are able to share via their platform, the relevant laws should apply, imho.
  
  I agree but its not even an encrypted messenger. Almost no one uses the weak encryption and im pretty sure they offer decryption to governments considering they were threatened to be banned in russia and avoided it
  
  What has encryption got to do with it?
  Most of telegram is not encrypted. There are unencrypted channels on telegram right now hosting child pornography. Telegram never removes them.
  
  Good. They shouldn't.
  Unencrypted channels are the ones that are easiest to trace, and the easiest ones to successfully base a prosecution on.
  The most correct response is to report them to law enforcement. Unencrypted channels make amazingly effective honeypots. It's fairly easy to bust people using unencrypted channels, esp. because people think they're anonymous and safe. It's much, much harder to bust people once they move to .onion sites and the real dark net away from their phone. When you shut down all the easy channels, you push people into areas where it's much harder, almost impossible, to root them out.
  
  What if telegram refuses to cooperate with law enforcement in a timely fashion to provide details of the people sharing that material? What should law enforcement do then?
  
  At that point they’re willingly hosting it for no reason other than to host it for their customers and they’re complicit, no?
  
  I think that holding the executives and BoD in criminal contempt of court is a good place to start.
  EDIT: AFAIK Telegram doesn't use warrant canaries.
  
  So shut down the internet.. FOR THE CHILDREN
  
  No. You can say that about so many laws being made, but telegram simply hosts the most vile shit.
  
  So you’re saying we should shut down any service that allows encrypted communication? Because any service that offers encrypted communication is going to be enticing to someone who commits crimes.
  
  That's... Not at all what I'm saying...
  
  Yes, but... I mean, it is being used for all of that.
  
  It doesn't matter in the slightest.
  Making a tool that provides a private communication service literally everyone should have unrestricted access to does not make you an accomplice to anything.
  
  So is the Internet, better go arrest my ISP.
  
  The ISP will absolutely cooperate with law enforcement though, unlike telegram. That seems the nature of the issue in that there is a lack of moderation and oversight, which anonymity is not mutually-exclusive from flagging nefarious activities, ideally. I REALLY am not too keen on giving safe harbor to the likes of pedos and traffickers and what have you.
  
  I REALLY am not too keen on giving safe harbor to the likes of pedos and traffickers and what have you.
  Secure communication between individuals is a fundamental right. That nefarious activities can be conducted over secure channels can never be justification for suspending that right.
  
  I'm not sure I yet agree with that. People can have secure communications; that's called meeting in person and in a private room. That line gets blurred with intercontinental mass-communication that ultimately is beyond the use of the average citizen and is more frequently utilized to nefarious ends. If the damage outweighs the benefits to society, then clearly a rational limit perhaps should be considered.
  Ultimately, what matters is respecting the house rules; and if the house rules of France were broken, why in the world would he travel there?
  
  That line gets blurred with intercontinental mass-communication that ultimately is beyond the use of the average citizen and is more frequently utilized to nefarious ends.
  I reject the premise of your argument: secure communication is not more frequently used for nefarious purposes than non-nefarious purposes.
  But even if I accepted that premise, I would still reject your argument. The underlying principle of your argument is misanthropy: humans are inherently evil. They will always choose evil, and therefore, they must never have an ability to effectively dissent from totalitarian control.
  The dangers posed just by the French government greatly exceed the dangers posed by every single person who ever has or ever will "nefariously communicate" over every communications platform that has ever been or ever will be invented.
  
  Yeah I haven't committed to one side or the other yet. For me it's less about misanthropy and more about transparency and accountability. The nature of the French democratic government means it is by extension held accountable to some albeit imperfect extent by the people. After all, the laws are by Transitive Property an extension of the people. But who holds accountable the sex trafficker that cannot be tracked? Conversely we can always say, "if you're doing nothing wrong, then why do you need to hide it?" An age-old dilemma. There probably should be a reasonable middle-ground between privacy and accountability.
  
  The sex trafficker can absolutely be tracked by doing old-fashioned police work: you spend time, money and energy to infiltrate the network, gain their trust and eventually take them down. But this requires police funding and training.
  "if you're doing nothing wrong, then why do you need to hide it?" An age-old dilemma.
  It's not a dilemma, the answer has been given multiple times: under the rule of law, law enforcement has to prove (or at least demonstrate a strong suspiscion) that you're involved in illegal activities before they can intrude in your privacy.
  But with the advent of mass data gathering and the exemple given by the NSA, all law enforcement agencies dream to change this paradigm.
  
  That "old-fashioned police work" IS very often communications monitoring. I have no problem with you saying a search warrant should be necessary, after all. Focus on the breaches of trust by the government institution for which you have some level of oversight, as opposed to providing a safe harbor for all nefarious communication in blanket form. It is thus not unreasonable to have Telegram provide some semblance of moderation and oversight to filter out obviously-nefarious, illegal activities while permitting the rest to pass-through uninterrupted. Communication isn't wrong; demonstrably criminal communications, such as child sex trafficking communications, are. To think how many murders and sex-trafficking incidents were caught by the monitoring of communications following a warrant.
  Let's instead focus on the transparent institutions moderating what is illegal to curb government overreach as opposed to providing a blanket safe-haven for mold to propagate. This is basically the Silk Road all over again, and for good reason that too was shut down.
  
  accountability.
  Accountability is something a government owes to the people. It is not something the individual owes to the government or the public. It is not and should not be easy for the government to invade individual privacy.
  What "accountability" do you owe when I falsely declare you to be a kiddy diddler? What "accountability" do you owe when the government is the one making the false accusation against you? I ask, and I answer: you owe nothing at all.
  
  The government, when Democratic anyway, is a reflection of the people. Quite literally the etymological root of the word. We are fortunate to live in a time where when such a western democratic government does something wrong — particularly in France — the people can demand change by way of riot or vote. By extension, such laws were drafted in representation if not direct referendum by the people. In other words, the extension of this CEO getting arrested on France soil IS the will of the people. And if the will of the people demands a degree of security and resources to inhibit crime, then so be it.
  I wonder to what extent encrypted communications permitted (or would've exacerbated) the likes of the Charlie Hebdo attack in France. I'm pretty sure 99.99999% of all communications the average citizen does not need to be secured beyond the capacity of a search warrant to reveal.
  You're right, it should not be easy; but it should also not be impossible when necessary.
  
  Why? They happily hand all your data over to whoever asks and so does everyone else that’s why they can single them out because you’re already bought and paid for.
  
  It is but so are phones and computers in general. Same with cars, many crimes require transportation.
  
  As always, there's a lot of nuance which is lost on Lemmy users.
  It's a question of exactly what telegram is being used for, what telegram the company can reasonably be aware of, what they've been asked to do, and what they've done.
- Gotta add that “pedocriminal” thing so people don’t argue against it. Don’t wanna be seen “supporting pedocriminals” by supporting encrypted communications

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